Signs Your Company Is Recovering From ZIRP

You should report him to HR. I think I saw Problem solved, Michael. Just report him to HR.

This is Dalton plus Michael, and today we're going to talk about how to tell whether your company is recovering from Zurpees. So as I'm sure you've seen from our previous video, we did a video on Zerp, zero interest rate phenomenon.

This was the kind of shorthand term for the crazy period of time around COVID where money was thrown around like trees and funds were doing amazing and KPIs and metrics didn't matter. And now we're in the recovery, and, a really intelligent founder coined this phrase, zerpies, and I just freaking love it. It's just the analogy works so well.

So that founder said, zerpies, I'm giving him the credit and let's talk about.

how to tell whether your company is recovering from zerpies because all companies had to live through this ZERP experience. Yeah. Whether it was the huge big tech companies all the way down to the two person startups Yes. It had a profound impact on Yes. Everybody, basically. And,.

like, you know, to be really clear, if you're working in a company that is effectively recovering from Zurpees, that's good. Yeah. It's a good You should probably keep staying there. Like, your stock is going to be worth more. Yep. If you are working at a company that's not effectively recovering from Zurpees, have you considered starting a startup? That equity might be worth Yeah.

Not the worst idea. Awesome. So how can you tell? How can you tell your company is recovering?

Well, one of the most obvious things is turnover on the executive team. Yeah. Turnover at the top, which is again normally you're like, oh, this is a bad thing.

We are arguing that is probably a really good thing. Yes. Why is it a good thing? Well, I would say that there's a type of executive that comes into a company that's made it. Yep. And Like a big company person. Exactly. A company a person who's used to a infinite resource scenario Yep.

With little accountability and that kind of person is a mere paper cut inside of Google and it is a massive flesh eating virus inside of a scaling up startup. And that kind of person needs to go. And I would also say there's another point here.

You'll often see the founders doing more. Yeah. Yeah. It's like the founders wake up one day and they're like, oh, no. I have to run this company? We're a host and all of these people I hired are actively burning us to the ground. Yes. Yes.

Yes. So I have to like wake up out of my stupor Yes. Start running my company again Yes. And need to like get into sort of a wartime mentality. I need to Yes. Get real about the situation. Well, and and what I hate is that like oftentimes there's an immune response to the founder in their own company. Yep.

Right? Where the organization is like, woah. Woah. Woah. You hired us to do these things. Like, you shouldn't be You shouldn't be working on products. I'm your head of product. You shouldn't be working on marketing.

Have a head of I have a CMO. Yeah. So it's almost like the founder gets boxed in. Yeah. Which is like it's like, well, you know, if that person is doing a great job, you're right. The founder shouldn't have to worry about it. What if the person's doing a bad job? The founder's whole nose, face, body Yeah.

Involved.

Give them the benefit of the doubt, they were hired at the height of ZERP Sure. To execute on a strategy that in the cold light of current environment is not a strategy they want to work on. Perfect. Perfect Yes. That's giving them the benefit of doubt. That still doesn't mean it's a good fit. No. Still a bad fit, but not their fault.

So this executive turnover slash founder more involved thing, great sign your company is recovering from Zerbees. Opposite, not so good. Let's talk about a sticky one here. To.

the office. Returning to off return to office. Something that some people may not love. We are recording this from the Y Combinator office. We have returned to office. I think there was this moment at the height of Zerp when people were like, you know, never gonna have offices anymore. Like, we should just tear down the office buildings. Let's turn them all into apartments.

Yeah. All offices are done. Yeah. You know, some of the founders love it. They're like, oh, I can just live in a tropical island and Exactly. Bali. Right? Tropical islands are great.

Yeah. And let let's let's point out like I will create a world for you, Dalton, where this idea is correct.

In a world where we can only be inside of our houses because everyone fears death going outside,.

We probably don't need offices. That's fair.

That's fair. Like Yeah. And I would argue San Francisco lived in that world for.

A long time. Two years maybe? Maybe three? Yeah. Probably three. Yeah. But not in that world. Yeah.

And so if a company is doing return to office, again, you may not love it personally, but it is a sign that the senior management has gotten real Yes. And has gotten religion on how to get their company back on track. Yes. And if you are an ambitious person working at these places, you should be relieved Yes. Because it's a sign Yes. Your equity might be worth something. And that you're recovering.

They're like that the senior management got real. And I think this is like I.

hate having to argue about this because there's so much empirical evidence. Right? Cities exist. What are cities? Collections of people who are closer to each other. And like it's obvious that cities create productivity. Having a team close to one another obviously creates productivity and like we can talk about the But but but but but Well, yeah.

But like and and it's like it's funny because people always want to quantify it so like, you know, you run into someone at the water coolers, but it's just like having a deeper connection with the people you're working with. And I think we can all agree, you have a deeper connection with people who you see in physical world than on Zoom screens.

Having a deeper connection with people you're working with gives you the ability to potentially Yeah. Be more productive. And And the meta point I would make on this is even if you personally are one of the but but but people about this Yes. The sign that senior management.

is getting religion about this and is willing to like Make a big Yeah. Means you're working on a you know, a good place with a winning culture Yes. That the the senior manager was like, hey, I know some people are be gratchy about it Yes. But we're doing this. Yes. That's a good sign. That's a sign that they've gotten real Yes. Making hard decisions.

Making hard decisions and willing to have some people be upset about it Yes. But they're gonna do the right thing anyway. Again, I think that's a good sign. One would argue that a big part of ZERP was using money to not have to make any hard decisions. Yeah. Give everybody everything. Always. All the money's free.

Yes. You could do anything. You could live anywhere. Yes. This is kind of making a hard decision which is again a sign of critical thinking. Yes. Alright. Next one, vanity projects.

Anyone working inside of a company knows.

when they encounter a project that exists, the best one I love to get someone a promotion. Yep. What is the opposite of building something for the customer?

And, like, using company resources, it's like, I don't wanna To justify the promotion of someone. Yes. It's like, here. Build this thing. Okay. I'm gonna throw this in the trash. Thank you. All of your hard work is Yes.

Gonna get me promoted, though. Is that stealing? Look. I.

you're taking company resources to produce something that could only benefit yourself. It'd be like if you stole office supplies and sold it on Etsy. Yes.

But worse. But worse. It's like if you stole money from a bank and put it in your bank account. Yeah. Because that's kind of what you do. Don't know if we're gonna win this argument. But basically, there's a lot of people at a lot of companies who are like, I need a team, and I need resources, and I need budget for a blah blah blah project. Yes.

The whole thing is a self perpetuating.

Yes.

I need resources to do things so that I can get more resources to do things. And basically, the game you're playing is how many people can you get in your org Yes. Reporting to you Yes. So you continue to level up. Now, Dalton, I don't want to blame those people because I would argue that that machine,.

that system that they're trying to optimize was created on purpose or not by the founders of that company. And so those founders trying to correct that system Yep. Is a good thing. Yeah.

That's a good thing. And so if you're working in a place and you're noticing that the people that were doing this are gone Yes. Or at least doing something more useful Yes. Or that and you're just like, we're not going to do this stuff anymore Yes. A very good sign. It's a sign that senior management.

has gotten real. Yeah. It's being intentional about the culture and the system of work and not copying. Yep. Especially not copying the big companies. This is prevalent in the big companies. Yep. Benefits, Dalton.

I used to get this DoorDash thing and free haircuts and massages and you know sixteen days of personal you know mental health time and blah blah blah blah And those things are going away. Yep. My company doesn't respect me and is not looking out for my best interests. Right? Yep.

Again, it's the sign of just getting real. Yeah. And I think what the senior management is looking for from employees is employees that are like, yeah, I want to work at a real place. I want to work on real products that help real customers. I want to be paid for my work and compensated. But please don't treat me like a child. And don't treat me as this fragile person who can't take care of myself.

Yes. And who can't make who has to be shielded from the harsh world.

It's kind like treating people like adults. Well, it's weird because like, I think some of the analogies that maybe you rightfully expect from a government like, you expect a government to create a social safety net. You give up taxes and you give up certain rights to your government, and maybe you expect that in return. Your your the the company you work for is not a government.

Like, let's not have similar expectations. Like like, it's not it's not responsible for your social welfare. And let's be clear. You're not required to work in it. Right? Yep. Required to pay taxes to the government. So, hey.

Our expectation is that we need to get some shit in return. That company, it's not the same relationship. And I think that somehow got flipped. And, you know, hey, I understand it. During a pandemic, shit's scary, and a company trying to step up and do do right in a scary moment for their employees makes sense.

But, like, it also makes sense that when things aren't scary, maybe some of those practices get taken away. Yep. The environment changed.

And so it's a really good sign if those HR benefits are starting to get edited. Yeah. And then It's like, have you seen the this genre of TikToks which again, I'm pretty sure it's pretty clear the people that make them Yeah. They're now just doing the trigger. Hate. Yeah. It's it's it's basically Like, we should make one of these. But they're like, oh, hey.

Come join me while I do no work Yes. My job at LinkedIn. Yes. And they're like, okay. Just showed up. Getting free coffee. And like you better ones are when.

working on vacation.

They're like They're not on vacation, they're just in the pool. Yeah. Saw that one. Yes. That's great. And so the correct immune response for you as a colleague of these people is to probably be like, wow, I should get a new job. Yes. Yes.

Yes. And it should, again, should be refreshing Yes. If you're starting to notice this being put aside. Yes. Right? That's a good sign. That's a very good sign. And and hey, some people are be disappointed.

Right? Some people have adjusted to a lifestyle that's not sustainable. And when the company's like, hey, we don't need you anymore, they're sad. And like, once again, I still blame the fucking founders because like Yep. I don't think that was reasonable to start. But you what's better? Like, not correcting the error Yep. Or correcting the error?

Right? Yeah.

I mean, ultimately, fake work jobs make a lot of people sad. And it is dystopian. It is like The Matrix. It is like you're a drone in a machine where you're like, I do work that doesn't matter. I don't even need to work. No one cares about my work output. My life is a joke. Does that create happy people that are satisfied with society?

Not good for mental health. Not good for mental health. And so I think it's really good to feel like you're working somewhere where your colleagues, your management, the founders of the company, whoever it is, take things really seriously and they themselves are not checked out. That should be motivating.

And if you don't feel like you work at a place like that, maybe you should consider moving you know, working somewhere else or starting your own company Yeah. Because I think you'll be a lot happier. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I got one for you. Here's a controversial one. You know, during peak Zirp Dalton, when my company was infected with Zirpies,.

I was working three days a week and I got to enjoy a lot of hobbies. Yep. I got to travel. I lived a nomadic lifestyle and I felt like I had great work life balance. This week my boss asked me to do something over the weekend. That is a violation.

You should report him to HR. I think I saw problem solved, Mike. Just report him to HR.

I have to work more is a sign your company's recovering.

from Zurpees. Yes. Quite. Yeah.

It takes a lot of hard work to make a good company happen. And especially in these kind of large scale pre IPO companies, there's a lot of work to do. Like, it's so easy to think you're at Google when you're not at Google. Yep. And you have to turn your eyes on and your brain on for five seconds and then be like, oh, this isn't Google. I have to work really hard. Yep.

Like, I'm still part of making this thing happen.

This thing could still not make it. Yeah. Well, and the hangover isn't over. Again, I think this is part of why we're making this video now, not like a year ago, is zero interest rate stopped a while ago. Yes. But there's a lot of slow unwinding of all this stuff. It's literally taking years Yes. For the course correction to happen.

Yes. It's not done yet. Not done. Well, and I mean, if we're just telling an employee for a second to be strategic,.

hey, make one, it's great if you're working at a company that's recovering from zurpies. Two, can you be on the right side of the recovery? Like, you you don't want to be seen as part of the problem. You want to be seen as part of the recovery. Yep. And what I will say is that maybe you feel burned because those efforts during Zurich weren't rewarded.

But if you're at the right kind of company, those efforts will only be rewarded more and more now. Like, and we see that in spades. Yes. Like when people wake up and they start taking account for, hey, what have you done? Yeah. Eventually the hard workers get ahead. Eventually they get ahead. Alright.

So I think we want to summarize this kind of how we said in the beginning. It might be hard if you're working at a company recovering from zerpies. Like like, your lifestyle might be taking a hit. If you're actually doing this so that you can make a great product, serve customers, make the world a better place. Actually learn skills.

Yes. Be a part of a team that's doing things.

You're gonna learn a lot more. You are. I mean, this is like the decision between going to a challenging school and not challenging school. Right? Like, you're gonna learn more challenging school and you're gonna learn more around people who want to be at a challenging school. You're gonna learn more.

You're gonna have so much more fun being with people who want to work hard versus people who want to be on permanent nomadic Yep. Whatever. So suck up the pain, know, deal with it, and consume the benefits of that. And if you are at a company that is not recovering from Zerpies and there's evidence of Zerpies everywhere,.

what do you do? You might want to find a different job or you might want to start a company. You might want to bootstrap. You might want to work for yourself. There's lots of choices. Like, yeah, if you want to live a very flexible lifestyle, there are ways to work for yourself and pull that But.

be careful where you are because it might not be around forever. Yep. Alright. Good chat. Thanks.